Comments on AA6E Station Log: Wondering about AMPRnet

Jeff - all very interesting. A little known fact ...

2010-02-12T17:00:00.841-05:00

Jeff - all very interesting.

A little known fact is that each and every Internet user gets the entire 10/8 network (16 million addresses) to use as he or she pleases. The only problem is that it is not routable from the Internet. No problem, you can set up your own custom gateway if needed. (This used to be common in the bad old days of DECnet, UUCP, etc. that had to connect to the new IP nets somehow.)

For hams, it's a mistake to think that the 44/8 network is some kind of asset to Amateur Radio -- that it could ever be used. Most hams, I bet, don't know that Amprnet exists, but those who do probably think that it must have some value.

But it doesn't really, for all the reasons you provide. Except that there is some historical usage, and there are some announced subnets in the Internet routing tables for 44/8. (See http://www.robtex.com/bnet/44.130.html, for example.)

73 Martin AA6E

Martin, I enjoyed reading your posting on this to...

2010-02-12T16:11:08.542-05:00

Martin,

I enjoyed reading your posting on this topic.

I don't have any actual stats to back this up, but I think 44 net is more used in Europe than here stateside. That said, I agree we would probably be lucky to have a thousand 44 net IP's actually active. I'd say we (amateur radio) would be very hard pressed to justify even a /16 allocation (65k IPs) under the most optimistic projections of future usage.

Like yourself, I tend to wonder why we don't offer up at least part of our 44/8 allocation back. Granted it would not be as simple as someone snapping their fingers. A lot of planning and adjustment of current allocations would be needed. Not mentioning the ego, territorial, and sentimental hurdles involved.

After a couple of my blog postings on the topic, trust me this topic can raise the hackles of some folks! Some agreed and some just immediately went defensive. What's the old saying? When you start taking heavy flak you're probably over the right target ;-)

With the advances in consumer broadband internet access, DDNS services, and VPN technologies...an internet linked packet network simply does not require AMPRnet/44net. In fact when you do 44net, you're often just adding yet another point of failure into the equation for very little if any benefit over other approaches.

That said, I understand and appreciate that many enjoy experimenting with 44 net for packet links and so forth. I'm not advocating that AMPRnet/44 net needs to go away totally. IMHO there just isn't any real justification for keeping 16 million plus 44 net IP addresses tied up.

Part of the problem is there seems to be this myth/misunderstanding by many hams that in order to do internet linked packet radio you have to use 44 net address space. In most cases this simply isn't necessary at all.

There are currently several packet radio networks tied together without the use of 44 net addresses. Some of these are pretty large with intercontinental reach. Some are solely dependant upon the internet (bad idea), but some (wiser) folks have HF ports available/in place for backup.

AMPRnet ownership? I could be wrong, but the best I can tell Bryan Kantor (WB6CYT) and/or BDale (KB0G) owns the 44/8 netblock for all practical purposes. I don't think the ARRL is involved with it in any way.

The 44/8 netblock was obtained back when the internet was young and getting such a HUGE netblock was pretty easy. At the time I think we were lucky they had the vision to grab it.

We can debate how it's being used today, but the bottom line is? The 44/8 netblock was obtained legitimately and the owners can do with it as they wish.

If any of the southern Connecticut hams are interested in getting back into packet radio, let me know. With the loss of N1URO's and N4GAA's West Haven systems, the Connecticut packet networks got clobbered pretty good. I would be glad to help someone get something going up there and/or point them to some other packet folks up in that region.

WA4ZKO
http://twitter.com/wa4zko

The fact (as it seems) that there is no clear orga...

2010-01-25T10:10:43.303-05:00

The fact (as it seems) that there is no clear organization behind AMPRnet may be "protecting" us. There is no one who has the authority to give it back! I'm asking ARRL if they have any connection to 44/8. They seem like the obvious responsible group. (But note that Internet assignments are an international problem. Maybe an IARU issue?)

I was just going to write a blog article on this t...

2010-01-25T07:26:37.661-05:00

I was just going to write a blog article on this topic. Last night on Slashdot I saw that we're down to 10% of the addresses left for allocation in IPv4. I was thinking about how getting back the 44. network would help and I'm surprised someone hasn't attempted to do it.

I wonder if we have an allocation in IPv6? Unfortunately it probably doesn't matter anyway as it's doubtful we'll ever create a ubiquitous and self-sustainable IP network.